It seems there are plenty of park and rides that do work but their effectiveness depends on the circumstances. It also on the face of it appears tram based park and rides are highly succesful as per Nottingham:
THREAD FROM A DISCUSSION GROUP FOR PROFESSIONAL TRANSPORT PEOPLE ( NOT JUST TRAM EXPERTS) SUBJECT:Subject: Are there any examples of tram based park and ridesl, UK or Europe that can be cited?
On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 at 10:18, ‘David Holt’ via UK Light Rail Experts wrote:
How about Manchester, too many Park & Rides to mention – https://tfgm.com/public-transport/park-and-ride Manchester doesn’t really seem to bother with bus park and ride, although there’s one on the V1/V2 “Doodlebug” guided bus route, called A580 Wardley, which doesn’t seem to be on TfGM’s list, don’t know why. The V1/V2s get fouled up in traffic in the city centre and have to bump over humps in Salford, which lessens their appeal somewhat. When my wife used to commute by tram , the Park & Ride car park at Stretford was always full by about 8am, so she had to park in a nearby street. David Holt
On Sunday, 20 February 2022, 22:53:20 GMT, walmsleydtransport wrote:
Nunnery P&R; in Sheffield, Black Lake on Midland Metro, and several on Nottingham Express Transit to name just a few. You could probably count Meadowhall in Sheffield as well. As for bus-based P&R;, I wouldn’t dismiss them. There are four in Oxford which are pretty well used, and 2 or 3 in Reading. I used to use the Winnersh P&R; in Reading quite often, in the days when we could travel into the town centre. I think it depends on all sorts of factors like where the P&R; is situated, the cost and convenience of payment, how difficult it is to drive into the city, and so on.
On Sunday, February 20, 2022 at 10:03:57 PM UTC Marc Kemp wrote: https://guidemapsonline.com/ret-rotterdam-tram-map/ David, I used to live just outside Rotterdam. The tram network above was extensive with a few Park and Rides as shown. Most commuters however connect with Dutch tram networks via mainline rail. Most tram networks start from the city/town’s mainline rail and then fan out into suburbs.
From: Dave Andrews Sent: 20 February 2022 21:42
Subject: Re: Are there any examples of tram based park and rides, UK or Europe that can be cited?
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022, 20:12 Martin Garrett, wrote:
I haven’t monitored public opinion on this and don’t have time to research it, but the success of Nottigham’s 7 tram based P&R;’s has never been an issue as far as I can gather. It’s true that Nottingham’s more distant P&R;’s are generally not full up, but the City and County Councils would always want spare capacity to reassure motorists. Quote from TripAdvisor Very convenient with plenty of parking. https://www.thetram.net/park-and-ride They’re just part of the overall well-used and well regarded Nottigham public transport network. Trams are embedded in the everyday culture of the city and surrounding areas. Why wouldn’t you want to park your car and use a tram? Through the central area where two routes combine to use the same track, 3 minute frequencies occur at the P&R;’s at Wilkinson Street and The Forest, which do tend to be fuller. It is strange that things that are problematic elsewhere don’t seem to be an issue where public transport is well run.
There are plenty of images online.
Martin ( From Transport Forum For Greater Bristol )
On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 7:20 PM Dave Andrews <> wrote:
That is most helpful Martin thank you. The Bath park and rides are widely derided as being useless which is probably true…. Do you or anyone else know how they are regarded ie are they success or failures in Nottingham? Also any pictures of the Nottingham Park and Ride would be helpful?
On Sun, 20 Feb 2022, 18:59 Martin Garrett, wrote:
There are P&R;’s at all 4 terminus points on Nottingham Express Transit (NET). Three of them are located adjacent to significant arterial roads approaching Nottingham, including next to 3 different junctions of the M1. These don’t generate much passenger traffic during the day but are well used at peak times. However, tram lines must end somewhere so why not at a P&R; on a busy trunk road.
There are 3 other tram-based P&R;’s along the way. NET’s lines are carefully routed to go through centres of population, so even if they start out quiet, they quickly fill up even midday, so that by the time they are going through central areas they are often standing room only. Though the terminal P&R;’s are quiet outside commuter times it is worth noting that many travellers with appointments in the city prefer to park on the outskirts at the P&R;, and travel in. E.G Those attending outpatients’ clinics at the Queen’s Medical Centre, a major regional Hospital, can alight directly at the QMC where a stop is located right in the middle of the hospital complex with direct covered walkways into the upper floors of hospital buildings.
At least 3 of the terminus P&R; locations have facilities near them that make them destinations in their own right. Nottigham’s planning always goes for synergy. I am aware that some P&R; bus services in Bristol, and Bath? excluded intermediate stops though this may now be changing.
The 4 remaining P&R;’s in Nottingham, use electric buses, and also serve as part of city-center circle services open to all, including non P&R; passengers, as far as I’m aware. Hope this helps to inform.
Martin. On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 5:14
PM Dave Andrews wrote:
It is understood that a park and ride rarely generates enough traffic for a tram however they may be useful. I would assume they are much more car driver attractive than a bus served park and ride.
Best Wishes David Andrews —
Dave,I would agree with you that some form of traffic restraint is necessary to get the best out of P&R. This could be car park restrictions, pedestrianisation, one-way streets, parking charges, whatever, as long as it dissuades drivers from driving into the city centre. Without some form of restraint, there is likely to be little effect on car traffic. The point is that providing a good public transport alternative makes it more politically acceptable to introduce these restraints.One idea I like is that of “zoning” the city centre. The city is divided into zones which are connected to a ring road but not to each other. Cars can therefore access anywhere they want to go in the city centre by entering the appropriate zone, but cannot get from one zone to another without driving out to the ring road and in again to their destination. Meanwhile, public transport provides good access to all city centre locations. I can’t give chapter and verse as to where this has been tried, but someone will know. Of course, it does require a decent ring road, which I don’t think is easy in Bath.David W
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 12:30, <mikeballinger> wrote:
Your zoning idea is what Gothenburg has been doing for about 50 years. I think they got the idea off Bremen.
Prof. Graham Parkhurst, I believe still at UWE Bristol, did his PhD into the effects of P&R schemes. I understand that he basically concluded that P&R schemes result in greater car mileage because of the journeys between homes and the P&R site, but resulted in less congestion in town/city centres.
On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 at 12:14, <ajb> wrote:
Gothenburg possibly the best example of “Zone & Collar” traffic management; Nottingham tried it too (long before the trams).
NOTE: This a national forum for transport expert or those interested in transport issues particularily as regards the role of trams or light rail. It tends to deal with the minutiae of such matters, which may not be of interest to those in the Bath Trams email group. No email can be taken as representing the view of the Bath Trams Board. https://bathtrams.uk/proposal/